Why should I use an IM service that none of my friends are using?

You don't have to. If everyone you know is using at least one of the big three (which is likely), then there isn't a whole lot for you to gain unless you feel like being an early adopter.

Keep in mind that I'm not suggesting that everyone do what I did. That would be absurd. I just want to encourage people to have an account on a jabber server as well as their AIM, MSN, and/or yahoo accounts. If there just isn't enough value in XMPP for you to justify the effort at the moment then that's fine. I'm not going to try to sell you something you don't need and won't use.

Alas, this can't easily be fixed.

Very true, but that doesn't mean it's not worth someone's effort to try.

It really ticks me off whenever I read careless promotions for open-source products.

I'm really curious as to what part of my "careless promotion" happened to "tick you off". Do you just not like ideas that differ from your own? Why not just go read something else then?

BTW your list for Linux (it will also be available for Mac OS and Windows when KDE 4 comes out) is missing the Kopete client, which in my opinion is the best IM client ever. The homepage of Kopete is here: http://kopete.kde.org/

However, for deepdarc.com I actually run jabberd2. At one point I was about to migrate over to Wildfire, but at the time I was having trouble getting it to work properly with my SSL certificates---which is a problem most people won't run into. I'm sure it has been fixed by now, and at some point when I get up the nerve again I'll attempt the migration once more.

Jabberd2 is considerably more difficult to set up than Wildfire and more difficult to administer, so I do not recommend it for home installations.

Another highly recommended jabber server is ejabberd. I briefly looked into this when I was migrating away from Jabberd 1.4, but for some reason or another I ended up with Jabberd2.

It is a shame that development on jabberd2 is so slow, but oh well.

What server are you running, and can you recommend some?

If there were a good framework for building Jabber applications so that they would all interact and play nicely, it would be much easier to have that single web site featuring all the software that works with Jabber. As it stands, we have Jabber servers working together, but the end-user has to do lots of footwork to find what he or she wants (and most won't do that). If instead you were to tell that user about one place he or she could find all this neat software that opens a new part of cyberspace, and that the possibilities are endless, especially if you say they can still maintain contact with their friends on other networks, you can pretty well bet you have a new customer.

So, the first order of business should be in getting all this Jabber stuff to play nice. A SIP client like Gizmo Project shouldn't preclude using another piece of software to manage the contact list, or maybe another client that interfaces with an IRC transport. Only when it no longer matters what choice you make - that your preference doesn't exclude other choices - will we be able to present Jabber as a replacement for other online presence services.

Every time you spell Gaim as GAIM, God kills a kitten . The same applies to Psi.

Oh noes, the poor kittens!

Fixed.

Why do you recommend Gizmo? That's closed source and I read in description of the program that they don't guarantee that it doesn't contain virus, spyware.

I recommend the Gizmo Project because they are a part of the PFJN. Their motivations and methods of operating their business are ethical--I would recommend them over Skype any day.

I can personally vouch that their software contains no spyware or viruses---but you are by no means required to use their software(which, as you pointed out, is closed-source). There is an open-source plug-in for Adium which allows you to have all of the features of the native Gizmo Project client if you are on a Mac. If all you are interested in is instant messaging, you can use any Jabber client to connect.

Personally I'm quite excited about what the Gizmo Project has to offer, and I'll be paying close attention to it in the future.

Recommend OpenWengo which is both open standards and open source and it works great.

I haven't heard of this. I'll have to look into it later.

Recommend OpenWengo which is both open standards and open source and it works great.

The problem is that Jabber is not a service like AIM or MSN or Yahoo, it's a loosely federated network of independent servers much like the numerous IRC networks.

Jabber is absolutely nothing like IRC.

IRC Networks scale horribly. IRC Networks are also islands. IRC doesn't support presence. The list goes on and on.

To say that Jabber has more in common with IRC than it does with AIM or MSN is simply inaccurate.

It also needs the features provided by other IM networks such as group chats, file transfer, and of course video chatting. As long as you have to run “a Jabber client” (not “Jabber”), get “an account on a public Jabber server” (not “a Jabber account”), etc., Jabber is doomed to be a niche.

Do I have to run "email" to check my email? What about "world wide web" to surf the net?

Granted, Jabber's current situation is a marketing nightmare that to this day has not had a satisfying conclusion. I'd be happy to work with people on ideas to change this.

Until Jabber has something compelling like that, going exclusively to Jabber is the cyber-equivalent of saying “I vant to be alone.” And you will be, at least in IM-space.

That's funny. Tell that to the 60+ people on my contact list, including friends and family. If this is really an obscure plea for isolation, I don't think it's working.

For Jabber to succeed it really needs a brand which is also its domain name and the name of its client. It also needs the features provided by other IM networks such as group chats, file transfer, and of course video chatting. As long as you have to run "a Jabber client" (not "Jabber"), get "an account on a public Jabber server" (not "a Jabber account"), etc., Jabber is doomed to be a niche. Perhaps Google will succeed in creating that brand, but "Google Talk" is actually a pretty bad brand from a marketing standpoint. What is needed is something smart and snappy. Anybody could get the ball rolling on this, they just need to whip up a simplified multi-platform client and put up a nice Web site with some genuinely helpful instructions.

Until Jabber has something compelling like that, going exclusively to Jabber is the cyber-equivalent of saying "I vant to be alone." And you will be, at least in IM-space. But you know that and you're willing to suffer for the greater good, so that's okay. Good luck with that...

Jabber's failure is it's own fault.

I take issue with the past-tense implication in this sentence. Jabber is not a failure. Jabber is now starting to take off--thanks in part to Google and Apple. Jabber is sorely missing a popular user-perspective website. I'd be happy to work with other interested individuals on making this happen.

Odgitfa said:

Yeah, unfortunately, security does worry me - especially the fact that my Jabber ID is my e-mail address. With AIM, I can post my screen name somewhere online and not have to worry about getting spam. If only that one change could be made, I may stand up for free, flexible protcols such as Jabber. But, until then...

No one is forcing you to use the same jabber ID as your email address. But really, if security is really such an important thing to you, then why are you using AIM? You think that it is more secure? Hogwash.

Victor said:

As for authentication and spam... Yes, there are certificates, so what? Everyone can run a jabber server and connect to anyone. Yes, you can block unknown servers, but in e-mail you can block unknown IPs too. No spam so far because of lack of popularity.

You would not want to block "unknown servers". If you were considering going that far, then simply blocking communication from contacts not on your contact list would be more than adequate.

Yes, it is possible for people to send spam on Jabber. However, because authentication is required with XMPP, creating an automatic black-hole list actually becomes feasible. Authentication forces accountability.

Unfortunately, it looks like strong anti-spam measures will not be put in place in the Jabber community proactively. However, due to the way that Jabber is designed, will be much easier to implement such mechanisms reactively when it becomes necessary(Unlike SMTP, the legacy of which haunts us to this day).

Spam/Spim are a fact of life. There are only two ways to eliminate it completely:

• Whitelist all communications (only works when you have an authentication mechanism)
• Don't use the service

Unless you are willing to do either (which most people are not), then you will have to take other measures to curb spam. If you take none, you will be deluged. With SMTP, your options are few. Jabber adds the technological ability for filtering to be far more effective.

Google will make Jabber popular just like Apple can make BSD popular - because they are actually thinking about people.

Enjoy your day, Quarter Quatt!

~Jess

A bit off topic: perhaps I am naive - but in response to the post by Jean-Louis about Google, I don't think Google is only trying to "appear" non-evil to succeed, I think they genuinely care about being non-evil. I think they also care about money, and they will do what works to keep their company afloat. One can be pragmatic without being evil.

Sometimes Google has had to operate in the grey areas - weighing pros and cons when the choice is not clear cut, as in the case with China and censorship.

I don't know enough about jabber etc. to say what prompted their decision to make GoogleTalk use XMPP or to join the jabber bandwagon, but I don't think they were being sneaky about it or trying to appear selfless while looking out for their own interests. There's nothing wrong with making a good business decision that benefits the company as well as the community at large.

That's just my hit on it though. I could very well be wrong! I like Google a lot because they treat their employees extremely well and they seem to actually care about the choices they make, as opposed to companies like eBay/PayPal who totally grind their employees into the ground (my ex-husband was one of them) and hardly consider the community at all.